SAfm

2022-04-26 08:33:23

26 Apr 2022 @ 08h30 - SA Cities Network


Broadcast Type: Interview; Tags: Part: 1 Placing, Population, Growth, Cities, Foreigners, Contributing, Growth, Populations, City, Study, Looked, Debtors, Good, Morning, Oliver, Coming, Twenty, Years, Population, Population, Country, Control, Grown, Fifty, Fifty, Percent, Possibility, Population, Rand

Download Clip

Order Transcript
(Additional charges may apply)


about what the impact is some of the findings of in the estate cities report of conducted in commissioned by says the sa cities network cities network the chief of the executive sa cities network sithole bank joins us as well as the deputy of secretary general the progressive professionals forum and as well as former m m c of johannesburg in the city matiti some thick with to good morning both of you matshidiso sithole as well as let's start here the report the headlines some of coming out of it at some of the headline figures least there telling us that population growth could hit twenty four million at the high end nine million at low the by two thousand and fifteen to we have take the worst case scenario will be a population then say of eighty-four million then people if my calculations serves me right or eighty-two million people then to win south africans every three living in urban area spell does that a disaster or is it something at least that the infrastructure resource capacity and planning tools of the country can meet with you on now start that sithole local much thanks very and good good morning to morning to my for my my phone panellists as well missing figure look at opportunities so i think the first thing that i need to that it's not the first say have said time that we and we organisation are not the only that has said far this i think as back as twenty ten the habits united nations hearted also done its population estimates and clear that urbanisation is on the rise when and we produce in conjunction with the of corporative of corporate department governance governance the integrated urban development framework policy which with is an instrument which we were proposing that how it is we will manage urbanisation these figures mentioned were so it's nothing new i think new what's is that the reality is closer we than thought we we we we think but it's a disaster if we do not for it if plan we do not respond that reality to through through infrastructure proper infrastructure proper planning planning but if do we do if we if we respond positively to not a disaster it it's but a huge opportunity comes with that more numbers that are conglomerates in a particular had space particularly people if its young absolutely and which will be the right our populations case becoming younger and younger over time progressively do we resourcing do we have the and the planning tools in be able to place to think that far into future the two thousand and fifteen about twenty years from now eight it sounds of years like a lot from now but it really a lot of years from isn't now do have the right we planning mechanisms in place so you are correct when you say number of years not a generation and there are countries about three good practice have been able think intergenerational to singapore is one such that everybody generally makes reference many others as well so it's not impossible for us to things think these and put it and put and able mildly niveus to respond both scenarios change and and as the dynamics towards a particular changed so it's not scenario impossible however think we've i don't got adequate resources not that we do have adequate financial resources we do not have adequate time we do number not have adequate of expertise so what is important is for ban us to start at that the way makes us cooperate there's no us to compete us need to for compete in the public in sector the and the private hospital civil society and the private sector and there's no also need for us to comply the public within sector right hands the report talks about the importance and significance of governing a constructive in way where all of society the whole and of government is mobilised absolutely matshidiso sithole tells us about that we don't have enough and adequate sources resources but within the but resources within the resources we do is there a resource have you because i'm asking this i'm wondering where the two three south africans out of living in urban areas out a crisis spells or should we pursue sort of some an aggressive d urbanisation project but and and thank you very much for having us mining to tyler morning monthly we look where have a a urbanisation is informed availability by of opportunity so as much could as you have a d urbanisation process still going you are to suffer a level of urbanisation at a particular point so i would want i agree with tyler day for me there are indeed opportunities that we could build on you know preparing for twenty fifty adequate do have skill i think we are do and we not utilising the skill at places the right for their right benefits if private so if private and public and public institutions could come together not to compete as he is saying come together because we need to unravel this challenge that we are going to see you know there are opportunities for all parties to be involved in south africa is bit stable a so you will find in movement anyone's from time to time i don't to talk about want but has been opened in but internally you will have that movement but but we need need to to be be able able we to to say these the future are and singapore is the point i've case in been to singapore if you look the history of of of growth and urbanisation is happening internally internal capacity was built the law in and i know is an so it might island challenge be a bit of a to hiv lane hundred percent from but it eight the cosmopolitan city our you know so metros and cities could learn something out of what happened power in over singapore over of time a period a of period time overhead planning of about fifty years not mistaken if i'm you know this is wanted to singapore where we in fifty years that quite a lot of it are could learn is that we from building our not necessarily putting up raised by building from on what have you we know so partnerships collaborations will us to where we take want to go is a good example singapore differences and some of those must be pointed a country out i mean it's with a population the size so so effectively of right but that forward was was planning incredibly important and they got that right you speak about skills here let's talk about what other requisite skills required sort of planning for the have and and and do we enough of that in south africa i don't look think we have enough because you to for be able to build up for for urban migration you need to change facie your your phase of the are areas people that are people in coming and in and coming they talked that about your urban urban planning abilities rhino is infused by planning long term you know municipalities do term have their long plans by the ability to implement and them realised those planes remains a a bit of challenge and it do take collaboration institutions with of higher learning you know that we know in two thousand and fifty are going to have a growth in population we that we need know to it's claimed our urban change our urban our urban areas want institutions of are higher learning role in making that their current sure in those institutions is to these bound critical that we are going see to happening in the very years thing is eighteen i mean eighteen years is something will just apply that you see our years fly because does of climate change issues so you know as institutions of higher learning needs change their thinking to and that claiming that their offering to is buy what is but what needed in society needed i that think it's time i'm sitting with great went who are him because there's it wrong or they studied courses that are not necessarily contributing to the economy and to the development of our country are we supposed to move to saying is needed what is a critical need then employ week we we create to studies that are going respond to date the institutions learning as of higher they and probably the ministry higher education it to of play in changing has a big the mindset in changing how we train and take out why do we to take out for need the building of an a urban urban renewed convey country in future the all of us have play here a role to absolute absolutely i want to ask you this do we have a lot over migration of of or do we have a lot urbanisation to me the difference seems at least to be that with urban are moving migration people to urban areas those with urbanisation with urbanisation understand i understand i it to be that more of the country is urbanising so places that used to be rural or peri urban are now becoming open which do we have which more of an impact does that how we should be planning or should be plan all the same for both instances i think we have a combination of both unable to pay which one is more between the two highlighted but the combination of both in a way of of of of collects a better word in how it is we are supposed that to be responding song the one hand on we are responding phenomenon to the of urbanisation and of the on the other hand population intake that's taking place that there's also a circular migration right other hand on the whereas moving there are people that are into roulette they by way of example larger municipalities metropolitan municipality does also other people that are moving out of metropolitan it municipality your intermediaries into your intermediary into cities or what is sometimes referred to as secondary cities that are not necessarily mattress that particular migration that's taking place as well is even wide at level where people are moving from one wants to the other within a particular municipality or from one region to another thirty phenomena and trap the question is how we arrested and i think the suggestion that we need in south africa in particular there's an opportunity there's an opportunity for us who comes form the apartheid base that we inherited it continues to be in efficient where there are townships on the one hand and places of work on the other hand i mean on average i think it's been said so many times but the average household spend at least six end of its small income as a household on public transportation in or rather or rather on transportation on alone transportation alone what about the other goodies in the basket of but expenditure that particular or they are not so for there's an opportunity for country us as a to change that trajectory and again i dare say how we change it is are going we to have to change public in the sector the sort of change think that i the public sector as belief sector to take needs in order to accommodate how it supports the other sectors that rely july public public sector sector in in on on the the order order to to check whether it supports packaging land whether it's for changing settlement patterns the right making public transportation more competitive and more affordable whether it's about ensuring that we quickly move in transition into cleaner energy ensuring that we are conserving natural resources as water such i mean there's an opportunity for job creation or as a consequence particular of that dynamic business mark an opportunity must we must that we ill afford ill afford squandered to and i mean it's it's it's interesting that you mentioned things like that's public transport because exactly what i was thinking about know the true you strength of any democracy not how is many people are driving fancy but how many cars of its well of people are making use of buses and trains and and and and and those sorts rate while public transportation is a big equalise of a of efforts society that is i unequal i and were more of us but we into getting an efficient it's transportation system will it you begin to see how equal start become to just by virtue of being able to move away from the private vehicle into public battle a but that public battle as i was saying it and needs to be a fish it needs to be always on time it must be affordable across a spectrum society and of it must go to the right place not going to certain places absolutely i wasn't talking about some of the here governance issues and and and and sithole speaks about sithole speaks about cooperative cooperative governance but you matshidiso you you worked in a former that space as m c in the johannesburg city of what are some of the key government inefficiencies and deficiencies that currently exist in with these and dealing have we learnt anything from covid-19 for instance have we learnt the kzn anything from floods and if not we to learn what are from those phenomenon of planning in terms and and re imagining of living our way bad gave bad a collaboration in government is very important and get it if we don't right we a situation will be sitting with that we are now sitting with right you know municipalities some of them highly dependent are on provinces and national their finding government for you know municipalities as they must develop we know the integrated development plans those development by plans must be to in a position be integrated nationally and provincially and and told introduction the introductions i do to i the of a district development imagine whilst trying to address those types of issues but do i understand what is it a spirit the development of of the udm in relation planning to and building capacity of municipalities able to to be implement their own plans for that is where the me one another challenge a is you know number two is the of ability municipalities to it implement their own ipps because if you don't implement and sufficiently for budgeted some of the programmes that are envisaged in the acdp's we could find problems ourselves in do collaborative issues i've been understanding battling with any relationship between covid-19 and climate change and what is happening in kzn as part of the climate change issues raised that have been nationally nationally and internationally and internationally and if collaborations are not happening with spheres the three of government and including a private sector bit the we may find ourselves in italian so understanding that there is a need collaboration for there is a need for internal arrangements this working for the benefit of society within government you know and responding to critical national issues they are having a big impact local on local on government government i mean i people mean used people to today governments happened in actually the local municipalities don't but if we integrate finding if we don't integrate apleni our then we will move against each other as different spheres of government so it is very important for me to in steam institution an alive internal integration of government operations know you for us to realise an ideally a for the benefiting for the benefits community community being able to respond to urban urbanisation even wanted and to say we have inward migration as well people moving into internally around provinces gauteng from gauteng to cape town you know those have an impact own so provision in the of services including the provision of stability for our communities wanting to on on the add a bit impact transport and public because the but money you have people using transport and public removing private cars you average you also point to climate change yes you remember your car is give you highest greenhouse percentage of gas emissions and that is need to remove what we and deal with be able to products to respond as municipalities a country and to the impacts of are climate change that very dangerous for our communities having effective an and clean that you public transport know public transport system system be we able will to respond we will to quite a lot of is absolutely absolutely side of this i look on the other about want us to speak the legislative framework that needs enacted in how to be we need to abuse tools legislative to ensure that sufficient and requisite takes place planning for the ballistic a quick robin break standing by with your traffic