2022-04-25 20:06:48

25 Apr 2022 @ 20h00 - South African Cities Network

Broadcast Type: Interview; Tags: Cape, Town, Studios, Opportunity, Engage, Conversations, Kind, Talking, Cape, Town, Evening, Guest, Engaging, Conversation, South, African, Cities, Network, Friday, Released, State, Cities, Report, Twenty, Country, Population, Expected, Grow, Nineteen, People

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kind and talking about cape and we're going town to have this evening guest a engaging us in the conversation of south the african cities network recently released on friday having its state cities of cities report two report thousand two thousand and twenty and twenty-one that shows the country's population is expected grow by between to nineteen and two thousand and four million people by two thousand and many of fifteen whom will live in cities towns or the south african cities network report people and households examines the economy social fabric city sustainability finance service delivery citizen engagement transport many other things among the reports five year analysis of nine cities and their performances trends cites insights inclusivity product inclusivity productivity and governance course among other things of showed that each municipality has its own political and operational dynamics this has and been heightened by covid-19 of course everything has been heightened by covid-19 the said with all though we discuss south african cities the future of questioning governments the role of municipal in achieving south african cities that be can global cities now this conversation of is predicated course a lot from the past even more on the president what we president want the to look like tomorrow conversation joining us in therefore is the programmes executive so is the manager for programmes cities at the south african network ms no sipho hlatshwayo twenty time is zero eight six you so sipho good evening thank much for joining us annually african cities south are minded to reflect to state of the the nation address by president ramaphosa cyril a couple couple of of years years ago ago when when he he he said said envisioned smart cities for south african lenasia is that one city that was upon lanseria a big lanseria the he made reference wants to be that to of all these that developments are taking place or will soon taking place at be the high speed trains proper network whilst or at the same time environmentally being sustainable cities perhaps with that in mind which south africans would remember all too given well given well the fact the that fact it that came it from came from of all people of their head of state what can you say relative cities to the state of report about south africa of and the future these cities that will be global players taking on the likes of i mean close theron a world class city in canada the first in class economy that whichever south african city one we are talking about has be competing with that to study it it need to be will competing with global player terms of in terms of in economy the car the social development in sustainability therefore talk when we about when the president was talking smart cities about is something that all of really we us need to hear does about but there not mean that while the a move towards cities being smarter or established new is being those that are already in existence are challenges there that being forgotten it's of saying a matter while the new initiatives developments and new that are proposed whether we get realise them more to not within the existing context fifty how do we reduce the burden on households which is already has reached astronomical in terms levels of how helpful not to pay being able for their services to the municipality and in some instances where you large find a number of households to go without food food to bed without still so it's it's a a matter matter of of balancing theme the balancing the two i'm taking our existing care of cities and being innovative about and thinking creating new cities matshiqi to respond the to economy can the climate climate change as well issues we certainly going to talk to the tensions in the competing interests development of the stated that south africa is and do not believe i we can have an engagement that is progressive in kind and in nature if we do not as have as the conversation part of the part conversation of conversation a on of and about rural this development and is something that many of will be able our listeners to identify and we mentioned earlier on the value and impact of covid-19 and this is especially true now what covid-19 has a veiled to us as spaces can that and probably should be occupied people by the of the country so when we talk about south african cities report break ms after the ad nosi hlatshwayo who is the executive manager for programmes cities african network cities network to is going is to going a unpack lot more of those unpack issues if you are listening of course i want in an dialling and to participate please on do join us the line johannesburg seven one four two thousand and six letters have your us thoughts send a whatsapp as well one four one on oh six oh four one oh seven whatsapp voice note under a minute please it short precise keep and brief and always and as say it's all is you don't have to but recent let's keep it robust let's engage and engage meaningfully after the break we continue south african cities report your to us are important masala is really living highlights former with presenters this week studio anchor and pilot um the force remembers these television glory with elsabé days tracey lange celebrates helper seller with absa memories voiced her husband and also film co producer drawn and then it's back school with to tracy picking and jo ann strauss mesela wednesday seven thirty on sabc to songezo mabe on this viewpoint live we are back we're on safm songezo viewpoint my back on the live from the a great cape town studio is place to be yet great to be here and it's the world and another part of on another somewhere day we will be else in the great network of south african broadcast corporate broadcasting corporation incorporation infrastructure infrastructure on the line is the executive manager for programmes at south african cities network municipal hlatshwayo sipho talking about the south african state of cities of the report have perhaps what i should done and then this is the time that i've actually going to take to just ask an open ended question what has reports not the super yielded in relation to state the of south african cities are asked very probing a question which has allowed actually engage us to issues on and other issues and certainly we will certainly we will but not to take away from the report itself what is it the salient aspects of that report that we should as south africans be conversant on and perhaps guide ourselves the balance in relation to of this conversation this report that stagnation south african state of the cities report we produced this report to reflect on whether cities eighteen progress number one and we at various look things that influence development in i iteration this of the date of this report we recognise the need for us on to focus governing for a number of reasons we deduct so that cities are performing large to a degree in terms of what mandated to do they are meaning provision of water electricity distribution of electricity and and like the like the the absa any issues which makes it is not to be able to respond meaningfully on the developmental objectives and we focus the reasons on for this and of at the heart came up that urban governing is something that we need to look at and when we talk about as an governance it's co about operative governance meaning how do the various spheres of government which are interrelated independence independence but are are able to work together to deliver or municipalities to deliver more than that how does all of society contribute towards development the of the city that was the for us reason developing this report and has on governance focused now out of this report picked we up that there's a few would need things that to be done if we to make are headway any towards headway towards the development the development this then they of the of city are all anchored around urban govern the first one in the most important one is that we do need a well organised well resourced and compete competent state and is not this just limited to fifteen it talks to all spheres of government because whatever happens in cape town city and are in cape town he said you town the city of cape they don't just do work on own got provincial their government worked that in the sense the national government the at of the state all levels a crucial the is second thing that there needs to be a mutual understanding among all actors and players are the on what developmental objectives of the city government good lunch together with an issue of at the issue of issues of trust and accountability accountability between the cities and the citizenry accountability among the various government series spheres of government of government but also trust but between government city government and its citizens and other and partners actors who may wants to the city work with to address its challenges thing the third that we also highlighting this report that is the political and administrative interface is very important if we are to see any changed at equity government and developments in terms of developments and and we've seen term in the previous of office how those tensions political between the administrative interface has resulted in some instances delays in service delivery or non delivery some instances in which impact on the a municipality ability of to then do its work as it is easy as it is its constitutional responsibility and then lastly we talk about intergovernmental intergovernmental relations relations that were that work why you do have so the igr framework is which accepted and adopted how do we make this igr framework beyond take it beyond words on paper and made sure that as of practice part there is mutual respect spheres across the of government and that everyone work towards the same plan if everyone be working is going to in the sense the city and that is in this instance and hence saying cooperative are governance and all of society approach is very important for south african cities this requires and collaboration and collaboration should be me if i said there were grapes challenges all to of this or two of threats the biggest to south african cities becoming these class world cities this is just my view from my engagement of south africa you can and of course correct disagreed taken to task the case may the case may as be be issue number one political office bearers and they have how descended into the arena well if you in relation to the administration of cities look at for instance the status of government local in the country at large the general auditor tells us about their health or otherwise of local government and this the general polity of south africa's local because local government system government system probably now more than an all ever at time low i you that is put it to big challenge number one two number by virtue of the arrangement of institutions state and the frameworks that engage south cities at large african national government provincial government government local complementary institutions pfma institutions that or mma if it is institutions around ultimately engaging question question the of cities of cities and the fact and that the some or of these systems bodies or structures do not readily to speak each other where hold that they do to the extent sometimes there is mis alignment just a in relation to kara collaboration put it to i those are probably the biggest of the country's challenges as what it pertains to the south african cities network ultimately wants its for cities how would you being put respond to that to you i was recognise i would ninety-two issues that she knew highlighted mean i on the issue you quality talk about the and we've seen it's not only in the current administration following what's happening of the in some of the metropolitan municipalities around political leadership or the city managers would be the acting ought to be appointed it is really a a a call cause a cause call for concern for concern but on the quality and how that has affected the administration municipalities of at the end of the day it is it's the general population of municipalities put these political that party into power i believe and therefore that still have a right to get them out of power right so the interstate then when the so the attention within party political parties the political and still over then they into the administration it then becomes a recipe for disaster is not to say that the law is not clear these things on how i need to be managed because there is a clear line our legislation in all of between the political the political the administration and but when we start happening seeing that within our own cities within our own municipality as a citizen of of municipality that that what do we then to do about it make sure that one we hold the either administration or the politicians to account that's very important the second raising thing that you are it around the need for the state institutions to readily speak to each other so that they can work together and you one hundred agree with percent so what so about a year and a half ago introduction was the of the district development model by governance cooperative the national department of cooperative governance is aiming which to really say we all working the same are thing government and therefore let's all come up with with one plan right and it's nothing new because it around is anchored what the white paper which was adopted back in the nineteen said about the city it is developments in speak that they that would they need would to need to kids to each other be now the challenge when comes yes we can come up with one hand but if you are differently going to account that's going to be a problem because i as a city have got my outperformance own cashiers and then there's other c the other c and so the jury out is still on whether the d emboldened is implemented is it going to be successful number one number two in terms of who to is going accountable be held accountable it held for for implementation is implement it the minister it is the various ministers in the provinces and the mecs provinces or is are it the kids we going to for the first in this country time going to see joint accountability on things that are going to be done and metropolitan municipality level so what raising is quite you are important but the one that i think we thing are not emphasises now is the problem for the d g beyond are what government can do in do so we really do so need to start thinking about who is outside of government assist that can to deal with the challenges that are faced by city and those include your government non sector for an example been doing incredible work and we've seen it during the if covid anything ethekwini during see the floods and you the disruption for time because lesson six minutes of what with you i did mr concession not that our problems are beyond government in other words government to an extent overwhelmed is or is just but throwing the action of the towel in the ring to say they've lost the battle for the development south african of cities now having that said all of which to an extent be minded i might actually to agree never mind the effect to calamitous the statement itself stands for we then do not have to prioritise the arrangement of the state together with its share let me social call partners them social partners the non the non state actors state look at how for instance south africa has been to able open quote close quote not respond effectively and adequately to the kzn floods now last year or in late july last year the the rights that were of gauteng taking place in parts and kzn part and for the best of two years covid-19 in other words there is just this discord are doing of those who the work on the ground in south africa but for present purposes let's focus on cities cities versus the versus the state actors within the cities and that these efforts do not speak to each other for reason might whatever be and too many obvious what the it is to reasons but i'm not going delve into my own prejudice effect into this how then do we ensure of that as part concession you've made we empower non those state bodies and actors and legitimise them with resources with access and good old even just the thing of responding timeously two engagements to engagements this this south african proverb system the is offline biggest must be one of the tragedies we have to engage context in this you one hundred percent correct so more it's than just saying we are engaging with the communities the engaging with our stakeholders when we start but on a process of relationship building when it comes to effect service delivery or dealing with any crisis going to that's where we start thinking and another thing that you are raising which is critical saying that the in new system is offline at problems that we the see that to are not attended in some in most instances seeking sometimes not it about the lack of resources it is your business but processes and able for no fast turnaround time for municipality to give to to deal get together with to issue deal with issues so we get really need to our to farm those alliances with people who are outside of government point but the starting for that is that their own processes need to be agile enough so that when you go to a city and this you say is what i can offer take a it doesn't city or a municipality for them six month to accrue to partner with them but they need to be to agile they need be taxable to allow for such partnership for such partnership reforms to perform often find that you people are willing to assist arbitrator because they do not just allow you can for that say it's something that need to pay attention we really to if to increase anything it twenty twenty-seven is guest the time my national executive manager for programmes south african cities network at the we talking we should be the about something concern of everybody here whether or listening city not you are in the or frankly even in the rural space because this conversation has has a tangential a tangential effect we effect have one afterwards voice note i would employ those are listening least one voice at one voice cold johannesburg seven one four two thousand and six of course the conversation after this in many respects to ties this conversation because if we need class first world class cities we need to perhaps redefined the game or elevate especially the stem spaces that use science technology engineering and matter the because these are the things that perhaps south africa might be losing some critical ground in relation to where perhaps the rest the world is making of investments and thus turning around the lived experiences of its citizens voice one note hopefully a call after which we will close the conversation good evening songezo good evening and to your listeners ecd malema mokonyama phaahla mokgadi i am supporting the president's initiative to these build these to build smart sit smart sit in south inside africa do not but i support him when build it he wants to in gauteng because we cannot all centralise economic activities in a single province because it does not going to reduce help us to migration all department in gauteng complain about they will an influx of people provinces from other it good it could be a good idea for him if he can build smart city that in other provinces such as eastern limpopo the cape us and the others in so that so that we could avoid number those of people migrating into a single we cannot province centralise all economic activities single in a province good evening to you songezo fantastic point and perhaps what i would that tie to point so sipho is the fact that truth be told the government has prioritised really not your small towns and rural development particular in i mentioned rural development small the light in of the light of towns in now covid times especially covid now times especially this in this advent of in working from home so the need to physically be in the context of gauteng and johannesburg to be the office in was largely taken away and many instances in has been taken away for good but you now find somebody who has been living in johannesburg for all of their professional life faced with the option of going home back but the infrastructure to be productive home is not at there outside office being in the or in the work environment nothing so your you've got else to time progressively and develop mentally so perhaps spend you might want to some time talking losses to us about the that have come with prioritisation the lack of of rural development which ones stymie need for migration the but to especially south african in a context where people claim identity relationship with and land how economic opportunity has been tapped not into by the lack of rural development roads for instance and related related infrastructure infrastructure the fact that ict telecoms industries not really do rich then there is no credible sustained network coverage that makes it incredibly difficult to be there on holiday how much in a professional set more up the have come with losses that lack of prioritisation of rural development may to and if you think the car about are under development and i'm getting the i'm they ten very can misleads at any more higher for those people who in areas that are underdeveloped are because for them to access it means the services to spend they need more for transport the nearest to get to clinic internet or to get to the café because they don't have access reliable to wifi like you and i in urban settings and the like i'm what's interesting though is that over time government has policy a policy which called is the called integrated the integrated which is urban development framework and it's while looking at urban areas it recognises chassis the link between urban and rural say area to that while the urban areas economy might be engine your rural areas are servicing the the the the urban areas think about in so if you terms of food value for example chain you need your and c in seeing this kolisi it being play and investment taking place in the urban areas colleague said as a in terms of smart city has been there also other initiatives of trying to find beyond your traditional urban centres like johannesburg says he was referring to i think the about six months ago there was about an announcement a but key development which to is next on take place on placed the southern the southern parts of the parts eastern coastal of our running from the eastern cape right up to our coffee bay in n k z whether we will see lifetime that in our i i do not know taking but it does the recognition that there that are other areas need to be developed and economic activity needs to be spread across twenty-two really require thinking through the cost of this number the skill set one that is that is required to do this and you you don't don't just just to to be be placed placed want want development development from one area to to another so those everyone is a important that we very cannot ignore the rural areas we certainly cannot unfortunately time is us over for and justice when the engine was starting to warm because you also critical touching on the issues about i thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and i think part two of this most certainly do is seasonal sipho secondly where to find you thank you we know time is twenty so much thirty-three three we have space we have space or time for voice just two notes after which we closed the segment and engage something of an about voice engineering to notes please your guest is clearly